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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: May 26, 2011 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fall 68, the firing, and more, continued...

A great "what if" , would be if "Bob & Ron" really did leave the band , what would have been the fate of the Band ? Would they have been freer to move to a more "Fusion" sort of thing, and if they did back away from the more adventurous material,( as they started to do late i 69) what would they fill in with ? Without B&R the blues and country influence might have been way less . I think it is safe to say they would not have evolved into the band we know . Any thoughts folks ?

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Poster: snori Date: May 26, 2011 12:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fall 68, the firing, and more, continued...

2 lead guitarists, 2 bass players, and 2 drummers - I imagine it would sound like Cream and The Jimi Hendrix Experience playing on stage at the same time. But if anyone is willing to shell out to find out here's the place. http://www.discogs.com/Mickey-The-Hartbeats-Heartbits-2/release/2516944

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 26, 2011 12:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fall 68, the firing, and more, continued...

I defn agree re:Bob. IE, in essence, they DID evolve into the band we love since Ron did leave, or rather his passing resulted in that outcome, so to speak. And oddly, for all my diss'ing of Ron, I largely stick to his era, and thus, I suppose I could say, purely from my perspective, they evolved into the band I don't like as much by the loss of Ron and retention of Bob (but that's pure speculation, of course...they would probably have become even less interesting to me by 75 if they had been the HBeats + ?, or whatever...).

To put that in a nutshell, I'd say again that Avalon shows of Oct 68 indicate Bob was vital and Ron was not...

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: May 26, 2011 2:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fall 68, the firing, and more, continued...

They were very fortunate that the "firing" didn't take !
If you look at all the 60's SF bands, they all changed by the early 70's if not earlier From an artistic and commercial point view I think the Dead's "countryfied, Workingman's, AB " version , was the most successful .
QMS : I can't say their post "Happy Trails" stuff was all that great . Yes, "Fresh Air" was a hit, but to me, they are a sad story, and the best deserves more attention . Big Brother lost Janis, and her transition to the 70's was to die .
Moby Grape , and Country Joe , really it' their first efforts .
The Airplane find big the biggest success of all, with the evolution to the rather commercial Starship . But those over slick ( ouch ) records just sound so bad 70's to me . And the eventual sad peak of cheese with "We Built This City" ( I know the wasn't much Airplane left at that point, but I think you know what I mean).
The Dead, tried to "change with the times". Let us not forget, that they did not exist in a vacuum . Even their jazzy stuff 73-74 fits with want was going on in some jazz circles, (listen to those early Return to Forever, or Weather Report records). And there were other rock groups taking it pretty out there , listen to any of the live material from King Crimson in the Weton,Bufford, era .
And on their albums, the Grateful Dead sometimes sound pretty slick sometimes themselves ( by the mid 70's they were in debt, and REALLY wanted a hit ). Recall the "Disco Dead" stuff . BUT for the most part, they couldn't help being themselves ,live, at least . And mostly they got past the graveyard of the other bands , commercially viable ( early 70's, and post 87) and mostly with their artistic integrity intact . Still based on the band they became by not firing those 2 guys .
Note: CCR , though a bay area 60's band, is sort of a different story. Their firs t album, has them (rather uncomfortably , I think,) as a kinda psychedelic band, it's with their 2nd album, and "Proud Mary" that they get their , short lived , by tremendously successful, thing going .

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 26, 2011 6:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fall 68, the firing, and more, continued...

Ha! I DO know exactly what you mean...the downfall of all those bands, the absolute embarrassment of "We Built this City" (gag...) is something "we" (friends from the Bay Area from 1971 on) have spoken of many, many times...it (WBTC) was even a joke selection for my son's recent wedding song list (ie, it's been passed on to the next generation) when "Today" (my fav romantic song by JA) was recognized as the right choice...